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Post by Paws on Dec 1, 2010 13:38:30 GMT -5
Speaking of Hidden Mickey's, I found one about two weeks ago while watching "The Lion King 1 1/2". During Timon's song "That's all I Need", one of the holes in the rock is shaped like Mickey Mouse.
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Post by Belchic on Dec 1, 2010 14:59:52 GMT -5
Ooh! Good eye, there, Pawsie!
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Post by Belchic on Dec 9, 2010 19:40:39 GMT -5
Hey, guys. I just thought I'd share with you the rise and fall of these features from what I understand:
"Snow White" was released in 1937, and it was a huge hit. Not only was it the first animated feature (which most people refer to it as even though it really isn't), but it went above and beyond the call of duty to achieve it's success. Following that came "Pinocchio", "Fantasia", "Dumbo" and "Bambi". All five of the aformentioned films turned out to be solid A+ pictures: 10 out of 10, 5 stars out of 5, whatever.
Then came World War II. This caused the economy to go down and Walt to lose a lot of his animation team. The films that were released for the remainder of the 40's made it pretty evident too.
In 1950, Disney made a huge comeback. "Cinderella", "Alice in Wonderland", "Peter Pan", "Lady and the Tramp", "Sleeping Beauty" and "101 Dalmatians" all became instant classics and soon afterward, household names. Even though Walt had a lot of negative feedback for "Alice" and "Dalmatians", they both still became very beloved films much like all the others that were mentioned.
Walt left us with one more classic, "The Jungle Book", which came out almost a year after his death. After that, Disney ran into another dark age. Their animated features released throughout the 70's and a majority of the 80's turned out to be forgettable and uninspiring films.
A new reniassance came for Disney, which ran from 1989 to 1995. "The Little Mermaid", "Beauty and the Beast", "Aladdin" and "The Lion King" were instant masterpeices, and all of which generated huge fanbases. From that point on, Disney started showing some signs of decline as a majority of their animated features didn't become as classic as their previous classics. Although, "Hercules", "Mulan", "Tarzan" and "The Emperor's New Groove" caught a lot of people's attention, they still weren't quite as successful enough to become masterpieces. "Lilo and Stitch" and "Brother Bear" were mildly successful, but they still left some of their audiences cold.
In 2008, Disney got itself back in gear again. "Bolt", "The Princess and the Frog" and "Tangled" all did very well in theaters.
That's just from my understanding; I welcome all feedback.
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Post by Paws on Dec 9, 2010 23:30:40 GMT -5
Something I think I should share with all of you- it's one of the ways that I'm totally weird.
I actually really enjoyed the movie "Home on the Range". I know, most people hated it, and I know that some Disney fans still refuse to believe that it was the last animated feature that wasn't a sequel of some kind until "Princess and The Frog", but I have to say, I loved it. I don't know if it was the strange animation and elements, the semi-serious plotline, or the humor, but whatever it was, I absolutely enjoyed everything about it. Seriously, I had the CD, the DVD (I'm in the process of looking for it), the storybook, and I think I had a plush of one of the cows (I'm not entirely sure though- need to double check unless my mom threw it away).
Just my thoughts on that particular movie ^^
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Post by Belchic on Dec 19, 2010 1:26:37 GMT -5
I'd really like to hear other people list their Top 10 of these films.
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Post by Trey_Vore on Dec 26, 2010 20:58:40 GMT -5
Okay, it seems like everyone liked my previous debate.
As you probably know, the 2000s were a big roller coaster for Disney. It was like a big mix of films that are excellent and films that are extremely poor. There were some that fall inbetween as well. The interesting thing is the 2000s started with two movies that weren’t that hot (Dinosaur and The Emperor’s New Groove) and ended with two movies that were really good (Bolt and The Princess and the Frog). Now, while my last debate was about the 1990s Worst, this debate will be different. Unlike the 1990s, which I don’t think choosing a definitive best between Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King is feasible (I would just choose The Lion King if it was up to me), this debate is going to be: the 2000s Best.
I had only two contenders for this decade though. My contenders are: Lilo and Stitch (2002) vs. Bolt (2008). Like my last debate, 10 categories: Primary Character, Human Owner, Secondary Characters, Minor Characters, Villain, Story, Themes, Advertising Campaign, Franchise Opportunities and Critical/Commercial Praise.
PRIMARY CHARACTER
Lilo and Stitch: Well, there are two characters in the title, but on the side of the DVD case it’s…Stitch. So Stitch it is. Basically Experiment 626, who is later named Stitch, is a character that you can see as the character that starts as the villain that becomes the hero. He is a funny character that evolves over the course of the story (like what people tend to look for in the main character) and loaded with powers. I have heard some people complain that he might seem underused but this might be a fault of the advertisement campaign.
Bolt: This one is easy: Bolt. Basically Bolt is a dog with superpowers, but in truth is an unknowning TV actor, who you can see as a fictional hero that becomes a real-life hero. Bolt is a complex character that has to learn to develop his own life outside his acting career—unlike Stitch, he thinks he is a hero with superpowers but it is all staged; he’s just an ordinary dog.
Verdict: While Bolt stays true to the dog that doesn’t speak in front of his owner, Stitch also doesn’t have much to say until the end. For a reason I will later get into, I will give this point to Stitch.
EDGE: Lilo and Stitch (2002)
HUMAN OWNER
Lilo and Stitch: Lilo is a lonely, Elvis Presley obsessed Hawaiian girl who longs for a friend in her time of need. She has a good heart but at the same time has lots of oddities.
Bolt: Penny is an actress who acts as Bolt’s co-star but later starts to worry about Bolt’s well-being and happiness and wants to take him home to catch a break from the actor’s life.
Verdict: Lilo has a mix of good and bad traits—she cares about Stitch and her sister but at the same time gets into fights with them and it’s hinted that she may be watching movies she shouldn’t be watching. That basically makes Lilo seem like a realistic character. Penny does have a pleasant demeanor towards Bolt and her mother but doesn’t seem to have the same evident bad traits that Lilo has. If she doesn’t even seem to have an ego, how did she get her job to begin with? Point goes to Lilo.
EDGE: Lilo and Stitch (2002)
SECONDARY CHARACTERS
Lilo and Stitch: Nani is Lilo’s older sister who holds Lilo in her protective custody and as noted cares deeply about her but gets in fights with her too. Stitch’s creator Dr. Jumba Jookiba and Galactic Federation Agent Pleakley are the two alien bounty hunters who are assigned with the task of recapturing Stitch and placing him under arrest. They also double as Laurel and Hardy-like comedy relief characters.
Bolt: While venturing back to Hollywood, Bolt meets a New York alley cat named Mittens, who has been all over with multiple owners and just doesn’t trust people. Together they run into a Midwestern trailer park where they meet Rhino, a hamster who happens to be Bolt’s biggest fan.
Verdict: Excellent chemistry all round, but while everyone seems to like Nani, Jumba and Pleakley like how they like Lilo and Stitch, Mittens is a well-liked character but Rhino isn’t.
EDGE: Lilo and Stitch (2002)
MINOR CHARACTERS
Lilo and Stitch: Cobra Bubbles and the Grand Councilwoman are there to provide a threat to set the plot in motion. David is there to give Nani someone to relate to. Myrtle is there to remind us Lilo is not a popular kid. Myrtle’s friends all have names but they’re irrelevant—they are just there so Myrtle doesn’t look like a douche trying to take on Lilo and Stitch by herself.
Bolt: The pigeons that Mittens bullies help give background to why Mittens is the way she is. Penny’s agent is a stereotypical Hollywood agent who likes the idea of publicity and possible fame.
Verdict: This is an area Bolt clearly does better; the minor characters in Lilo and Stitch have only one note, it trips here.
EDGE: Bolt (2008)
VILLAIN
Lilo and Stitch: Captain Gantu can be seen as the villain of the movie. He later must succeed where Jumba and Pleakley failed even if he accidently puts Lilo in danger. He has his moments but basically he’s a pretty underdeveloped character.
Bolt: Dr. Calico is Bolt’s archenemy. He basically is holding Penny’s father hostage and sends his agents to stop Penny and Bolt. He sounds more active than he actually is.
Verdict: Both movies have a problem in this department—there really isn’t much of a villain in either movie. While Captain Gantu may have only been there to give Lilo and Stitch a climax, Dr. Calico is only there to give background to Bolt’s TV show and doesn’t play much of a role in the actual movie. While Gantu may not have been much of a villain, he actually plays some type of role in what the movie is actually about.
EDGE: Lilo and Stitch (2002)
STORY
Lilo and Stitch: The plot of Lilo and Stitch is about a young girl who unknowingly adopts an alien experiment thinking he’s a dog. This seems like it has the sensibilities of something I may expect to see on Cartoon Network’s What a Cartoon! Show. I remember one short cartoon on that series that was about a young girl who befriends a vampire which seems like what the story of Lilo and Stitch can be seen as. Of course the execution compensates, but I had to get that out of the way.
Bolt: The plot of Bolt seems vaguely familiar. Bolt, the main hero, is a male character who thinks he is a real deal hero but isn’t—does this remind you somewhat of Buzz Lightyear’s character from Toy Story? Mittens is a female character with a history of abandonment issues—does this remind you somewhat of Jessie’s character from Toy Story 2? Now, like with Lilo and Stitch the execution still compensates and Rhino can still keep this movie from feeling like “Pet Story” although no one seems to like Rhino that much.
Verdict: The stories are both good, but Lilo and Stitch wins for seeming a little more interested in forming a more evident identity.
EDGE: Lilo and Stitch (2002)
THEMES
Lilo and Stitch: The general idea of Lilo and Stitch is the importance of family and the idea that for all the problems that a child may cause, they still have a good heart.
Bolt: The general idea of Bolt is learning to develop your own life and real life heroes are more meaningful than fictional heroes.
Verdict: Lilo and Stitch wins for being a bit more consistent. They are both a work of fiction after all.
EDGE: Lilo and Stitch (2002)
ADVERTISING CAMPAIGN
Lilo and Stitch: The “inter-Stitch-als” were basically not saying much about the movie at all. While it certainly was creative, when did Stitch steal Princess Jasmine from Aladdin? When did Rafiki hold up Stitch during the presentation ceremony? Is the ad campaign still relevant? Probably not.
Bolt: Bolt had a more traditional advertisement campaign that was more straightforward and told you more about the movie as a whole.
Verdict: Bolt wins this one. Not much else to say after that.
EDGE: Bolt (2008)
FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITIES
Lilo and Stitch: While the movie was in theatres, Lilo and Stitch had a PlayStation 2 video game called “Stitch: Experiment 626” which detailed what Stitch’s purpose was before the movie, but due to the later products, it’s probably no longer taken seriously. Later there was Stitch!: the Movie, the pilot for Lilo and Stitch: the Series, both of which were released in 2003 and the latter became a very highly rated show on the Disney Channel. A 2005 movie called Stitch Has A Glitch was released as well (acting as a bridge between the 2002 movie and the series though I don’t feel it was necessary), as well as a 2006 series finale called Leroy and Stitch. But that wasn’t it—there was even an anime series which aired in the late 2000s! In addition to the official movie characters, the Disney Store even sold plush toys of Stitch’s girlfriend Angel!
Bolt: While Bolt was released theatrically, there was a Wii game about the movie which detailed what the Bolt TV series was like. Beyond that…nothing really. When I bought the movie it came with a comic book adaptation, and I still see the Disney Store selling plush toys of Bolt and Mittens but…this doesn’t seem like a franchise movie to me.
Verdict: Do it for love, because it’s actually much harder to sell out than you might think.
EDGE: Lilo and Stitch (2002)
CRITICAL/COMMERICAL PRAISE
Lilo and Stitch: Even though this movie got initially got mixed reviews and a split decision from Ebert and Roeper, this film followed the floundering Atlantis: the Lost Empire, which was just okay, and gave Disney a very nice-sized cel-animated success. It made $141 million on an $80 million budget in just the US (holding its own against Minority Report), and was nominated for Animated Film of 2002. It lost to Miyazaki’s Spirited Away.
Bolt: While this film’s reviews seemed rather “…ehhhhh…” (probably because everyone was still raving about Wall-E and Kung Fu Panda, and the teen girl film Twilight), and truth be told I couldn’t find a review from Ebert and Roeper, it managed to outperform the unspectacular but pretty good Meet the Robinsons, proving Disney can successfully make a digital animated film (it’s not like Dinosaur or Chicken Little can say that). It made $114 million on a $150 million budget and was nominated for Animated Film of 2008. It lost to Pixar’s Wall-E.
Verdict: Both these films have the “this film gave us a success that we needed” branding and as indicated, proof that Disney can still make magic amidst heavy competition. I could say these films are evidence of Disney being successful in cel and digital animation, but then it can easily turn into a “2D vs. 3D” debate. I can go on for hours and not find much of an answer, but… you know what, maybe I should let money talk here.
EDGE: Lilo and Stitch (2002)
WINNER: Lilo and Stitch (2002)
Thoughts: After seeing Lilo and Stitch and Bolt theatrically, I was very happy with both as they reminded me of the Disney I grew up with. When trying to find a best of the decade there didn’t seem to be much of a struggle here…Lilo and Stitch almost swept the board. While I made Bolt seem like it completely pales, the execution still compensates, and I’d still highly recommend it. There is no shame in losing to Lilo and Stitch.
I welcome your thoughts.
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Post by Belchic on Dec 27, 2010 0:06:24 GMT -5
I think you picking Lilo & Stitch over Bolt is kind of an obvious giveaway, because Lilo & Stitch clearly outranks its competitor on your Top 15.
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Post by Trey_Vore on Dec 27, 2010 3:35:43 GMT -5
I think you picking Lilo & Stitch over Bolt is kind of an obvious giveaway, because Lilo & Stitch clearly outranks its competitor on your Top 15. Well, you picked Bolt over Lilo and Stitch. Do you have a counterpoint Belchic? I'd be happy to read it. Who knows, maybe you saw something I didn't.
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Post by Belchic on Dec 27, 2010 14:05:33 GMT -5
Well, there were a few things about Lilo & Stitch that made me feel a little uncomfortable. For instance, the arguments that Lilo got into with Nani are pretty harsh. Also, the movie as a whole does not quite have the same amount of heart as the TV series does.
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Post by huntsman on Dec 27, 2010 21:52:29 GMT -5
Bolt: The plot of Bolt seems vaguely familiar. Bolt, the main hero, is a male character who thinks he is a real deal hero but isn’t—does this remind you somewhat of Buzz Lightyear’s character from Toy Story? Mittens is a female character with a history of abandonment issues—does this remind you somewhat of Jessie’s character from Toy Story 2? Now, like with Lilo and Stitch the execution still compensates and Rhino can still keep this movie from feeling like “Pet Story” although no one seems to like Rhino that much. I don’t believe the comparisons to Toy Story are fair. I can understand why the comparisons are made, but in Toy Story, humans didn’t know the toys were alive, and since toys were mass produced, it stands to reason that a few of them wouldn’t even know that they’re toys. However, in Bolt, Bolt was intentionally mislead. He was introduced to Penny, bonded with her, and was then cruelly deceived into thinking that he was the only thing standing between her and certain destruction. Buzz Lightyear thought he was responsible for protecting the world as well, but that was pre-programmed – Bolt acted out of love. Also, Jessie’s plight is a joke compared to what happened to Mittens. Her owners had her declawed and then left her abandoned inside a house when they moved. Countless animals die each year because of such ineptitude, and as a result of that, Mittens had to become a petty “crime lord” and threaten pigeons to bring her food, because she couldn’t hunt for herself. The trailer park scene also demonstrated that most humans don’t give scraps to stray cats. She had a hard life. Jessie, on the other hand, just got real bored and lonely. Boo ****ing hoo.
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Post by growltarist on Dec 27, 2010 22:11:09 GMT -5
You know, on the subject of Bolt, I actually thought it was quite similar to a certain Disney character from a certain Disney film. I've watched 101 Dalmatians II countless times as it was my first DVD when we got our DVD player, and so when I watched Bolt, I found him ironically very much alike to Thunderbolt's character in 101 Dalmatians II.
Thunderbolt, outside of his life as a movie star dog, thought that everything that happened in reality was a movie, performing heroic actions because he constantly thought he was on camera. Bolt - ironically, a shorter version of Thunderbolt - was similar, in that when he wasn't in the usual film making setting, still thought that he was a superhero pooch with superhero powers. There are the differences too, but when I first watched Bolt, I got the impression of Thunderbolt's character from 101 Dalmatians II. Seeing that Bolt is shortened from Thunderbolt, it /is/ possible that they noticed the similarity, but there'd be no way of telling that for sure. x'D
Not sure if anyone brought it up before in this thread, but I just thought it was oddly ironic for those characters to have those two big similarities.
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Post by Belchic on Jan 24, 2011 20:21:22 GMT -5
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Post by Trey_Vore on Jan 25, 2011 14:47:01 GMT -5
Hmm...I gotta say, that looks really good.
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Post by Spott on Jan 25, 2011 14:56:01 GMT -5
I'm a HUGE fan of WTP, I've loved it since I was a child.
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Post by Belchic on Feb 26, 2011 21:38:49 GMT -5
Here's something I decided to post that might interest you guys. I was talking with bab recently about this, and I thought maybe I'd share it with everybody else.
I'm currently taking a class on the History of Cinema. In the class, I'm learning about the history of cinema, and I get to watch a movie during each class meeting. This class inspired me to create a class of my own: The History of Disney Animation.
I recently PM'd bab my idea of how the class would go, and he approved of the idea. To all who are interested, here's what I said in my message:
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Here is my plan for my History of Disney Animation class if I were to make it. I calculated it as a 16 week course that will meet twice a week. I came to the conclusion that on a regular course wether it be a spring semester or a fall semester, there can be either 2 or 3 holidays. So that would make it about 29 or 30 class meetings total.
Anyway, here is my planned out semester for which movies will be shown:
Day 1: Introduction Basically an overview of the class and what we'll be covering.
Day 2: Laugh-O-Grams (1923-1928) A look at the early silent films that Walt did in the 20's. I will also show Steamboat Willie (1928) and maybe some other short films that were popular between 1928 and 1932.
Day 3: Technicolor (1932-1937) A look at some of the colorized cartoons of the 30's. I will start with Flowers and Trees (1932) since that was the very first cartoon to introduce technicolor. I'm also going to include The Band Concert (1935) in this set since that was Mickey Mouse's first colorized cartoon.
Day 4: Snow White and the Seven Dwarves (1937) Disney's first feature-length film, and the very first feature-lenghted animated film.
Day 5: Fantasia (1940) A movie that nearly killed Walt's career back in the day, but is now considered one of Disney's masterpieces.
Day 6: Bambi (1942) Walt's favorite of his films.
Day 7: The Three Cabelleros (1945) An example of what the Disney company was reduced to during World War II.
Day 8: Quiz #1 A review of what we studied so far in the class.
Day 9: Cinderella (1950) A look at Disney's big comeback.
Day 10: Peter Pan (1953) One of the most cherrished Disney films of all time.
Day 11: Sleeping Beauty (1959) A movie that was a financial bomb, but is still considered one of Walt's finest.
Day 12: 101 Dalmatians (1961) Shows what the financial failure of Sleeping Beauty caused Disney to change to; the start of a new animation style, but still one of the greatest animated films of all time.
Day 13: The Jungle Book (1967) Walt Disney's last animated feature film.
Day 14: The Rescuers (1977) An example of what was made during Disney's second Dark Age. I picked this film because of all the Disney Animated Features that came out between 1970 and 1985, this one was the most successful.
Day 15: MID-TERM
Day 16: The Black Cauldron (1985) Disney's biggest bomb to date and the reason why the animation team made a major change after this.
Day 17: The Little Mermaid (1989) The start of Disney's Reniassance.
Day 18: Beauty and the Beast (1991) One of Disney's most successful films and the first to be nominated for Best Picture.
Day 19: The Lion King (1994) Another one of Disney's most successful films, and to date, the highest-grossing animated film of all time (upon the date of it's release).
Day 20: Toy Story (1995) The beginning of Pixar.
Day 21: Tarzan (1999) The end of the Disney Reniassance.
Day 22: Quiz #2 A review of what we studied so far since the mid-term.
Day 23: Lilo & Stitch (2002) An example of what was made during Disney's third Dark Age. Like The Rescuers, I chose this because of all the Disney Animated Features that came out from 2000 to 2007, this one was the most successful.
Day 24: Finding Nemo (2003) An example of the masterpieces Pixar was pulling out of their asses while Disney was flopping miserably.
Day 25: Wall-E (2008) Pixar's wake up call to Disney and the start of their new Reniassance.
Day 26: Bolt (2008) What Disney learned from Pixar.
Day 27: The Princess and the Frog (2009) Just a good finale for the class.
Day 28: Extra Credit Presentations I will announce an extra credit project for the class. The project will be to write an essay about your favorite of the Disney Animated Features and why it is your favorite. On this day, the students who did the extra credit will present them to the class. If they choose not to present, they will only get half credit.
Day 29: FINAL EXAM
If there is an extra day on the agenda, I will as a bonus, give a survey to the class asking which of these is their favorite amongst the others on the list: Pinocchio (1940), Dumbo (1941), Lady and the Tramp (1955), Aladdin (1992), Mulan (1998), Brother Bear (2003). Whichever one of those gets the most votes will be the movie we watch on the day before the final.
Now, here's how the grading scale for the class will work:
Participation: 10% (This grade is 7% attendance and 3% discussion-sharing.) Quizzes: 20% Mid-Term: 30% Final: 40% The Extra-Credit assignment will help boost their grade up 15%, but it depends on how well they do.
So, what do you think? Does that sound like a fun class you'd want to enroll in?
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