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Cadpig
Oct 19, 2007 15:57:09 GMT -5
Post by setzer on Oct 19, 2007 15:57:09 GMT -5
Do you ever wonder why, when people are watching "The Simpsons", they never want to see an episode that's about Lisa? Really? Lisa is my favorite character on that show and her episodes are amongst my favorites. Oh well. In retrospect, I do wish that Cadpig would have had a more prominent role throughout the series. She did have several excellent episodes where she was the star, and she had some great roles in the team-oriented episodes as well, but I feel that she had so much more potential. Granted, there are still several episodes that I’ve never seen, such as Coup De Vil or the banned episodes, so I should wait until then before I pass judgment. Also, there are some episodes that I haven’t seen in years, such as My Fair Moochie, which was one of the last episodes I saw before Toon Disney removed it from their schedule.
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Cadpig
Oct 19, 2007 16:24:42 GMT -5
Post by Two-Tone on Oct 19, 2007 16:24:42 GMT -5
Do you ever wonder why, when people are watching "The Simpsons", they never want to see an episode that's about Lisa? Really? Lisa is my favorite character on that show and her episodes are amongst my favorites. Oh well. In retrospect, I do wish that Cadpig would have had a more prominent role throughout the series. She did have several excellent episodes where she was the star, and she had some great roles in the team-oriented episodes as well, but I feel that she had so much more potential. Granted, there are still several episodes that I’ve never seen, such as Coup De Vil or the banned episodes, so I should wait until then before I pass judgment. Also, there are some episodes that I haven’t seen in years, such as My Fair Moochie, which was one of the last episodes I saw before Toon Disney removed it from their schedule. I can say the same about Two-tone, she deserved a more prominent role in the series as well
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Cadpig
Oct 19, 2007 18:16:45 GMT -5
Post by Drake on Oct 19, 2007 18:16:45 GMT -5
Sounds like me with Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends.
I always want to see an episode with Eduardo, Berry or Cheese in them, even though Berry has only been in two episodes so far.
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Cadpig
Oct 19, 2007 21:06:30 GMT -5
Post by setzer on Oct 19, 2007 21:06:30 GMT -5
I always want to see an episode with Eduardo, Berry or Cheese in them, even though Berry has only been in two episodes so far. Ah, another fan. Berry rocks. Thanks for the replies, at any rate.
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Cadpig
Oct 19, 2007 23:26:33 GMT -5
Post by Trey_Vore on Oct 19, 2007 23:26:33 GMT -5
Do you ever wonder why, when people are watching "The Simpsons", they never want to see an episode that's about Lisa? Really? Lisa is my favorite character on that show and her episodes are amongst my favorites. Oh well. Dude...this is taken from DVD Movie Guide: www.dvdmg.com/simpsonsseasonsix.shtml"Lisa-centered episodes aren’t usually my favorites, partially because they tend to be more sentimental and mawkish than most." www.dvdmg.com/simpsonsseasonnine.shtml"Over the run of The Simpsons, Lisa-centric episodes tend to be some of the least interesting. She’s simply not a character who lends herself to lively, clever stories, as hers usually focus too much on sappiness and not enough on wackiness." That is a reason why it was a good idea that Cadpig wasn't a completely helpless character in the show. If you are watching a character that is always dreading life, constantly whining on why they are not popular, can't get what they want, have no friends, etc. Would you really want to be around that type of person? I say, leave 'em to wallow in their self-pity until they realize what a drag that lifestyle really is. 'Til then, Lisa Simpson is the ideal girlfriend for Charlie Brown. That further enforces why so many kids love Spongebob Squarepants: he's a happy, upbeat character that kids would like to see. That is what helps make you popular at school and in your social life: a happy outlook on life. In addition, that is why Disney is where they are right now: a mega-conglomerate empire that won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Why? Because their characters are not wrestling with bouts of depression!And before you say, "But what about the episode "Animal House Party"? I really like that episode" if you've seen my "Tier list" for the series, you will see that was only an "In the Middle" episode in my book.
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Cadpig
Oct 20, 2007 0:00:02 GMT -5
Post by Belchic on Oct 20, 2007 0:00:02 GMT -5
That's a very nice analogy, Trey! Overall, I gotta say that even though I wasn't familiar with Cadpig before I started watching the series, I absolutely love the way she turned out! There's no doubt that Cadpig is one of the greatest cartoon characters of all time!
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Cadpig
Oct 20, 2007 0:19:16 GMT -5
Post by Trey_Vore on Oct 20, 2007 0:19:16 GMT -5
Thank you, Belchic. Glad you agree.
I'm giving you brownie points.
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Cadpig
Oct 20, 2007 2:54:28 GMT -5
Post by setzer on Oct 20, 2007 2:54:28 GMT -5
Really? Lisa is my favorite character on that show and her episodes are amongst my favorites. Oh well. Dude...this is taken from DVD Movie Guide: www.dvdmg.com/simpsonsseasonsix.shtml"Lisa-centered episodes aren’t usually my favorites, partially because they tend to be more sentimental and mawkish than most." www.dvdmg.com/simpsonsseasonnine.shtml"Over the run of The Simpsons, Lisa-centric episodes tend to be some of the least interesting. She’s simply not a character who lends herself to lively, clever stories, as hers usually focus too much on sappiness and not enough on wackiness." That is a reason why it was a good idea that Cadpig wasn't a completely helpless character in the show. If you are watching a character that is always dreading life, constantly whining on why they are not popular, can't get what they want, have no friends, etc. Would you really want to be around that type of person? I say, leave 'em to wallow in their self-pity until they realize what a drag that lifestyle really is. 'Til then, Lisa Simpson is the ideal girlfriend for Charlie Brown. That further enforces why so many kids love Spongebob Squarepants: he's a happy, upbeat character that kids would like to see. That is what helps make you popular at school and in your social life: a happy outlook on life. In addition, that is why Disney is where they are right now: a mega-conglomerate empire that won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Why? Because their characters are not wrestling with bouts of depression!And before you say, "But what about the episode "Animal House Party"? I really like that episode" if you've seen my "Tier list" for the series, you will see that was only an "In the Middle" episode in my book. That’s subjective. I think Lisa is a great character. I think Squidward is far more entertaining than SpongeBob. I don’t know about you, but I like character depth. SpongeBob has practically no depth while Squidward has a lot; a character who is always happy isn’t necessarily a good character. Lisa is one of the most human characters in The Simpsons; she’s a bit egotistical from time to time, but that’s another issue altogether. Characters who are always happy and upbeat are annoying. It’s the reason why Wooldoor Sockbat is such a successful parody on Drawn Together. Even Cadpig has dealt with depression and so forth in 101 Dalmatians: The Series; the episode “Prophet and Loss”, for example. If she was always happy and upbeat, she wouldn’t have gone through with her grandiose plan in order to stay popular.
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Cadpig
Oct 20, 2007 6:15:58 GMT -5
Post by Kit on Oct 20, 2007 6:15:58 GMT -5
In Japan, the broadcasters of the series found they were able to turn the apparent viewer dislike of the series around by focusing marketing attention on Lisa. Lisa's well-intended but ill-fated struggles to be a voice of reason and a force of good in her family and her city struck a chord with the Japanese. - WIKIPEDIA
I think Lisa help putting some contrast in the series, which is why I think The Simpson is timeless and a great show whenever. It has it all: Slapstick, Satire and more serious storylines sometimes.
Like the one where Homer reunites with his mother. Very funny episode, and it ends with that touching view of Homer sitting on the front of his car looking on the stars. The series has depth.
Anyway, I am more of a Homer-fan. He is loveable, amusing and almost a satire on the avarage american.
If there's a Simpson I'm less fan of there's Bart actually. (Marge & Maggie goes without being said.)
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Cadpig
Oct 20, 2007 10:54:21 GMT -5
Post by Trey_Vore on Oct 20, 2007 10:54:21 GMT -5
Dude...this is taken from DVD Movie Guide: www.dvdmg.com/simpsonsseasonsix.shtml"Lisa-centered episodes aren’t usually my favorites, partially because they tend to be more sentimental and mawkish than most." www.dvdmg.com/simpsonsseasonnine.shtml"Over the run of The Simpsons, Lisa-centric episodes tend to be some of the least interesting. She’s simply not a character who lends herself to lively, clever stories, as hers usually focus too much on sappiness and not enough on wackiness." That is a reason why it was a good idea that Cadpig wasn't a completely helpless character in the show. If you are watching a character that is always dreading life, constantly whining on why they are not popular, can't get what they want, have no friends, etc. Would you really want to be around that type of person? I say, leave 'em to wallow in their self-pity until they realize what a drag that lifestyle really is. 'Til then, Lisa Simpson is the ideal girlfriend for Charlie Brown. That further enforces why so many kids love Spongebob Squarepants: he's a happy, upbeat character that kids would like to see. That is what helps make you popular at school and in your social life: a happy outlook on life. In addition, that is why Disney is where they are right now: a mega-conglomerate empire that won't be going anywhere anytime soon. Why? Because their characters are not wrestling with bouts of depression!And before you say, "But what about the episode "Animal House Party"? I really like that episode" if you've seen my "Tier list" for the series, you will see that was only an "In the Middle" episode in my book. That’s subjective. I think Lisa is a great character. I think Squidward is far more entertaining than SpongeBob. I don’t know about you, but I like character depth. SpongeBob has practically no depth while Squidward has a lot; a character who is always happy isn’t necessarily a good character. Lisa is one of the most human characters in The Simpsons; she’s a bit egotistical from time to time, but that’s another issue altogether. Characters who are always happy and upbeat are annoying. It’s the reason why Wooldoor Sockbat is such a successful parody on Drawn Together. Even Cadpig has dealt with depression and so forth in 101 Dalmatians: The Series; the episode “Prophet and Loss”, for example. If she was always happy and upbeat, she wouldn’t have gone through with her grandiose plan in order to stay popular. Call her what you like; even though Homer may not think so, I think she's the true bad kid in their family. This was taken from an opinion article titled "The Worst Sons/Daughters in Animation" written by Alex Weitzman on ToonZone.net and printed near Mother's Day, 2007: Lisa Simpson Why: Again, you are probably wondering where Bart is. I thought about it, and I figured that Bart's not really that bad a son. He's a hellion, to be sure, but he's pretty grateful for the things his folks give him, and he's mostly trouble for other people (that is, everybody else). When you really think about it, he can't hold a candle to Lisa, who may be the goody-goody of the family and yet still manages to make herself into a pretty poor daughter. The problem is her condescension; she thinks herself so much better than her family that she has almost no respect for her parents at all. To Lisa, her mother is a mindless housewife and her father is a drunken lout, and even though she's right a lot of the time, she's still ignoring all the good they do. And so she tries constantly to forcibly remake them into people that they aren't and, frankly, shouldn't be. With all the preaching and whining and yakking about "important" things on and on and on, no wonder she can't find the time to be an appreciative daughter. Advice to Would-Be Lisas: You may someday surpass your parents, and maybe you already have. But nobody likes a braggart, and certainly not one who can't see that there's other kinds of virtues in the world. I'm aware Homer made the list too, but it's all fine and dandy if the character is entertaining (and funny). And as I said in my review for "The Simpsons Movie", I thought her plotline in the film was only in there just to give her something to do; without it she'd be dead weight on the budget. If there's depth, cool, if there's no point, who cares? And who got the role to play off Spongebob in his movie? Was it Squidward? Nope, it was Patrick. And that brings me to another issue: back in 2004, I saw both "The Spongebob Squarepants Movie" and "The Polar Express". I liked the former, but hated the latter. Remember: "Great writing will save boring artwork better than great drawings will save boring ideas, but comics are a visual medium, and a funny picture can pull more weight than most people think." --Bill Watterson, The Calvin and Hobbes Tenth Anniversary Book While "The Spongebob Squarepants Movie" may not be the film equivalent of say, "The Last Supper", it was fun, and sometimes that's all that matters. "The Polar Express" overkilled on the visual effects and had nothing else to show for it. When I go to buy a card for someone on a special occasion, I don't use the drippy sentiment; I go for a funny card. I know that a heartfelt card is nice, but a laugh goes a long way. "Drawn Together" is funny, but I don't think it's in the same league as shows like Family Guy and the like. And while I did say I thought "Prophet and Loss" was one of the best episodes, I didn't think the issues that you bring up were overbearing (like they were in "Animal House Party").
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Cadpig
Oct 20, 2007 17:03:24 GMT -5
Post by setzer on Oct 20, 2007 17:03:24 GMT -5
With all due respect, chief, you could find 1,000 people who agreed with you, but it doesn’t make your opinion any more valid than my own. Each individual is different; people like and dislike many different things. If you dislike characters who have flaws and can feel emotion, then so be it, but I think characters are better if they actually have their fair share of ups and downs.
Take Brandy Harrington, for example. She was far worse than Lisa when it came to thinking she’s superior. Brandy was one of the most self-centered characters in the past decade, and even though some episodes ended with her “learning her lesson”, she was usually back to normal in the next episode. Lisa episodes have also ended with her “learning her lesson”, but it’s practically the same. Also, Brandy Harrington was always depressed; she didn’t want to be in the Amazon and she shed her fair share of tears in the series, and complained in just about every episode. She didn’t have the wackiness of Mr. Whiskers, nor did she have any an upbeat attitude towards life.
So, what’s the difference?
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Cadpig
Oct 29, 2007 12:53:58 GMT -5
Post by Trey_Vore on Oct 29, 2007 12:53:58 GMT -5
With all due respect, chief, you could find 1,000 people who agreed with you, but it doesn’t make your opinion any more valid than my own. Each individual is different; people like and dislike many different things. If you dislike characters who have flaws and can feel emotion, then so be it, but I think characters are better if they actually have their fair share of ups and downs. Emotion is in the eye of the beholder; I look at it more as a background to a character’s motivation, not “are they REEEAALLY feelin’ it?”. Warner Brothers used that in some of their more popular series like Teen Titans; maybe it didn’t have ocean-depth scripts and it didn’t always hit, but the fact the writers put some investment in the characters made us care about them enough so we are pulling for them once the action kicks into gear (that factor alone is something you don’t see in shows like Loonatics Unleashed). I look not only at motivation, but also whether or not the character is actually entertaining. Characters like Beast Boy and Starfire may not have the deep, brooding aspects of characters like Robin and Raven, but they are endearing enough (and funny) to the point of me forgiving them and enjoying the episodes. Cyborg on the other hand is deeper than them both, but he’s not an especially engaging character and all his episodes are alike. That’s not to say I don’t like him, he’s just my least favorite. Take Brandy Harrington, for example. She was far worse than Lisa when it came to thinking she’s superior. Brandy was one of the most self-centered characters in the past decade, and even though some episodes ended with her “learning her lesson”, she was usually back to normal in the next episode. Lisa episodes have also ended with her “learning her lesson”, but it’s practically the same. Also, Brandy Harrington was always depressed; she didn’t want to be in the Amazon and she shed her fair share of tears in the series, and complained in just about every episode. She didn’t have the wackiness of Mr. Whiskers, nor did she have any an upbeat attitude towards life. So, what’s the difference? Maybe so. Unfortunately, I think that statement has more truth than you probably want it to have. As a character, Lisa Simpson may have her fans. But it’s nothing compared to the level of popularity attained by characters like Bart or Homer. I never see Lisa hocking Butterfingers, 1-800-COLLECT or Church’s Chicken, she never had any music videos (do you think “Do the Lisawoman” or “So, So Neglected” would have the same impact as “Do the Bartman” or “Deep, Deep Trouble”?) and on the Simpsons arcade game, the setup is like this: player 1 is Marge, player 2 is Homer, player 3 is Bart and player 4 is Lisa. I know I’m going Angry Video Game Nerd here, but while this four-player action mimics the two original Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles arcade games, Marge and Lisa are placed on the sides while Bart and Homer are in the middle of the booth. Why? Because the game designers figured Bart and Homer would pull in much more quarters/tokens so they got the most comfortable positions. If you were late meeting your buddies in the arcade, you were stuck in an awkward position while using a lesser-popular character. As a series, Brandy and Mr. Whiskers may have its fans. But how does it measure up on Disney Channel compared to the popularity of other series like Kim Possible and Lilo and Stitch: the Series? Unlike Christy Carlson Romano, Kaley Cuoco never got featured in a Disney Channel commercial emphasizing the importance of family, reading and such (I think the best they got was an appearance in a “You’re watching Disney Channel” bumper and some “Summer 2005” commercials, but that’s it), I never saw a Brandy and Mr. Whiskers video game and during my last trip to the Disney Store, I never found any officially licensed Brandy and Mr. Whiskers collectible figurines, T-shirts or stuffed toys. Also, consider the quantity of episodes/movies: Kim Possible and Lilo and Stitch: the Series got at least four movies and 65 episodes. Brandy and Mr. Whiskers, in comparison, never had even one movie and after episode #39, like Dave the Barbarian before it, Brandy and Mr. Whiskers ended with no closure (I even read that “The Tortoise and the Hare-Brain/Rip Van Whiskers” was not even originally intended to be the series finale). The series ended feeling like it was aborted. As Matt Groening himself even says in my copy of Simpsons Comics Royale: “Do it for love, because it’s actually much harder to sell out than you think.” And remember the valuable lesson Mel Brooks once taught us: “Moich-en-dising! Where da real money is made!” And kids and rabid fans can’t seem to get enough of Winnie the Pooh, probably because they emphasize the more endearingly popular Pooh, Piglet and Tigger. Do you think the franchise would be all that and a bag of chips if they started shifting the focus to a character like Rabbit? I doubt it. Here’s other examples: In the Pokemon series, some of the issues they bring up but aren’t thoroughly discussed are very real. You never see Ash’s dad, and when you look at his mom, does she look very old to you? And consider Brock’s family: he was left as a legal guardian for his little siblings because originally, his dad selfishly left the family to become a failed Pokemon trainer and his mom died (in the Japanese version, she left too, but the point is still there). But these elements are left in moderation to focus on happy issues because one, kids want to see their heroes being happy and two, if these issues were fully synergized, it would disturb someone and create controversy. And there’s also Lilo Pelekai of Disney’s Lilo and Stitch. Her motivation to want a friend is because we learn that prior to the movie, her parents are dead. It’s her background motivation; it helps to make us care about the plotline, setting it in motion. But did Lilo constantly cry and whine and moan about her parents’ death all throughout the movies and show? Was she always like “OMG my parents are dead I’m so sad!!!!111”? Of course not, no one wants to see that; the drama was kept in check by comedy. Having a happy attitude makes you more likable and increases the chances you have of getting a good job. Have you ever tried going into an interview looking like you are on the verge of a complete breakdown? No one would want to hire you. And remember what E. B. White taught us using a little spider who gave her all to save a pig’s life: “Chin up, Wilbur! Everybody loves a happy face!”
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Cadpig
Nov 2, 2007 2:35:34 GMT -5
Post by setzer on Nov 2, 2007 2:35:34 GMT -5
You missed my point. You’ve expressed a genuine dislike for Lisa Simpson, but you’ve said many times that you really liked Brandy Harrington. However, Brandy has many of the same flaws that Lisa has, if not more, yet you berate Lisa for her flaws and ignore the flaws that Brandy has. Why is that? I don’t really care what the public thinks; this is a discussion between you and I, so I’m curious as to why you feel the way that you do.
Brandy Harrington wasn’t a particularly happy character, and was often depressed in many episodes. She always believed that she was superior to her friends, and often ignored or mocked their ideas despite the fact that they had potential to work. All of your complaints about Lisa Simpson can be applied to Brandy Harrington, so what is the difference? I haven’t heard you complain one time about Brandy’s personality, despite the fact that you went down the warpath against Lisa. So, in short, how come you like Brandy but hate Lisa, when your complaints can be applied to both of them?
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Cadpig
Nov 3, 2007 22:24:30 GMT -5
Post by Belchic on Nov 3, 2007 22:24:30 GMT -5
Okay, can we get back on topic, please? We're supposed to be talking about Cadpig, not Lisa Simpson.
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Cadpig
Nov 4, 2007 0:07:32 GMT -5
Post by Trey_Vore on Nov 4, 2007 0:07:32 GMT -5
That's a statement of prespective. Maybe it was you who missed MY point. You’ve expressed a genuine dislike for Lisa Simpson, but you’ve said many times that you really liked Brandy Harrington. However, Brandy has many of the same flaws that Lisa has, if not more, yet you berate Lisa for her flaws and ignore the flaws that Brandy has. Why is that? I don’t really care what the public thinks; this is a discussion between you and I, so I’m curious as to why you feel the way that you do. Brandy Harrington wasn’t a particularly happy character, and was often depressed in many episodes. She always believed that she was superior to her friends, and often ignored or mocked their ideas despite the fact that they had potential to work. All of your complaints about Lisa Simpson can be applied to Brandy Harrington, so what is the difference? I haven’t heard you complain one time about Brandy’s personality, despite the fact that you went down the warpath against Lisa. I don't think this needs to be elaborated on, but if I must... Here's the equivalence: Slamming a Simpsons character = Slamming Spider-Man or Optimus Prime The Simpsons can take a hit and still be just fine. Why do you constantly hear people make jokes about the French or the Australians? They can take a hit and be perfectly fine. Slamming a Brandy and Mr. Whiskers character = Slamming Scrappy-Doo or Jar Jar Binks Brandy and Mr. Whiskers ain't NEARLY as loved a series. Why don't you trash talk Indians or go to Germany and make a Third Reich joke? It's basically "Don't go there". So, in short, how come you like Brandy but hate Lisa, when your complaints can be applied to both of them? In short: Slamming Lisa Simpson is okay. Slamming Brandy Harrington is not okay. Okay, now we can get back on topic.
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